Translators list?

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Translators list?

Postby kimmov » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:41 am

While I was adding translator e-mail addresses to Docs/Users/Contributors.txt I noticed the translator list in web pages and Contributors.txt is not in synch. This is pretty confusing at least. Maybe we should formalize this listing a bit.

Current "format" was done by me years ago when we needed to list translator somehow. Currently we list:
  • Language
  • Translator
  • Translator e-mail (just added to SVN trunk)

But maybe it could be something like this instead:
Language
Current/last/active Translator: Name
Current/last/active Translator: contact e-mail (can be a list address too)
Last updated: version / date?
Previous translator1: name + contact
Previous translator2: name + contact
Translation file: path to PO file

Problem once again is keeping this info up to date. Perhaps we can automate it at least somewhat by reading info from PO files itself.
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Re: Translators list?

Postby gerundt » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:00 am

My script GetTranslationsStatus.vbs read all translators from the PO files itself:

German.po wrote:# This file is part from WinMerge <http://winmerge.org/>
# Released under the "GNU General Public License"
#
# Translators:
# * Winfried Peter <winfried.peter at omicron.at>
# * Jörg Schneider <tonda at users.sourceforge.net>
# * Tim Gerundt <tim at gerundt.de>
# * Name of new translator <mail at domain.tld>
#
# ID line follows -- this is updated by SVN
# ...


The PO files have also a property for the PO revision date and the last translator:

German.po wrote:msgid ""
msgstr ""
"Project-Id-Version: WinMerge\n"
"Report-Msgid-Bugs-To: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_i ... tid=113216\n"
"POT-Creation-Date: \n"
"PO-Revision-Date: 2008-08-11 00:18+0100\n"
"Last-Translator: Tim Gerundt <tim at gerundt.de>\n"

"Language-Team: German <winmerge-translate@lists.sourceforge.net>\n"
"MIME-Version: 1.0\n"
"Content-Type: text/plain; charset=CP1252\n"
"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n"
"X-Poedit-Language: German\n"
"X-Poedit-SourceCharset: CP1252\n"
"X-Poedit-Basepath: ../\n"


But we have currently no info in the PO files, which translators are active or inactive.
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Re: Translators list?

Postby kimmov » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:37 pm

gerundt wrote:My script GetTranslationsStatus.vbs read all translators from the PO files itself:


Hmm. Interesting. Perhaps the PO files would be the most natural place to hold this information. I'm thinking that translators are most likely to keep their own info up to date. But then that info might be a bit unfair: somebody might submit a fix for single string and get the credit for being a translator while somebody else had done all the other work.

That's why I think it would be good to separate maintainer or active translators. And these people should also be the main contact point. So that we should try to route translation updates through these people if possible. Couple of times we've already been in the situation that there's been two a bit different versions of translations for some strings. For me its impossible to determine which translation is better...

gerundt wrote:The PO files have also a property for the PO revision date and the last translator:

I think the last update (=revision) date would be important to show. It would be easy to see if the translation has been updated for the last release(s) at all. And also easily show which translations are practically abandoned (=not been updated for years) and whose value is questionable already.

gerundt wrote:But we have currently no info in the PO files, which translators are active or inactive.

Can we have our own properties in PO files?
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Re: Translators list?

Postby gerundt » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:36 pm

kimmov wrote:I think the last update (=revision) date would be important to show. It would be easy to see if the translation has been updated for the last release(s) at all. And also easily show which translations are practically abandoned (=not been updated for years) and whose value is questionable already.


If the translator use Poedit, the PO-Revision-Date property will automatically set!

And our translations status show this date too:

The count of the untranslated strings are also a good indicator for abandoned translations. If you see that Turkish have 997 untranslated strings (93.5%) from 1066, we can say that the translations is death! :?

kimmov wrote:Can we have our own properties in PO files?


Own properties not, but we can save informations in the comment area at the beginning of the page, like the translators list.
Maybe we should add a "Maintainers" list to the comment area too?

German.po wrote:# This file is part from WinMerge <http://winmerge.org/>
# Released under the "GNU General Public License"
#
# Maintainers:
# * Tim Gerundt <tim at gerundt.de>
#
# Translators:
# * Winfried Peter <winfried.peter at omicron.at>
# * Jörg Schneider <tonda at users.sourceforge.net>
#
# ...
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Re: Translators list?

Postby kimmov » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:12 pm

gerundt wrote:
kimmov wrote:I think the last update (=revision) date would be important to show. It would be easy to see if the translation has been updated for the last release(s) at all. And also easily show which translations are practically abandoned (=not been updated for years) and whose value is questionable already.


If the translator use Poedit, the PO-Revision-Date property will automatically set!


We cannot force anybody to use poedit. And trusting people to update this kind of metadata by hand won't work. Unless who commits remembers to update it. And I've already many times forgot to update these things so... :(

My suggestion to have "last updated for version" -info is is kind of short answer to "is it updated for latest version". We get the same info from dates, but then you must first check the release dates...

gerundt wrote:And our translations status show this date too:

The count of the untranslated strings are also a good indicator for abandoned translations. If you see that Turkish have 997 untranslated strings (93.5%) from 1066, we can say that the translations is death! :?


True. I think we should just remove these kind of useless "translations". I remember the Turkish never had more than menu strings translated. And now that many of those have been changed there aren't many original translated strings left. I'd say if less than 20% strings are translated the translation has no much value. We can keep the files in version control (in case somebody will update them) but not add them to the releases.

gerundt wrote:
kimmov wrote:Can we have our own properties in PO files?


Own properties not, but we can save informations in the comment area at the beginning of the page, like the translators list.
Maybe we should add a "Maintainers" list to the comment area too?


That could work. Maintainers really should be one person. The one who says if the update is OK or not (if its from some other contributor).

We must also have this information in one file in version control and in releases (new "Translators.txt" file?). But I guess running the script to update the file isn't much trouble when updating translation. We need to also document then what all that means - what it means to be maintainer/contact person. And how we want to handle translations. Currently we have a bit vague ways to work with them as pointed in previous messages. And that probably also confuses some people who work/want to work with our translations.
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Re: Translators list?

Postby gerundt » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:18 pm

kimmov wrote:That could work. Maintainers really should be one person. The one who says if the update is OK or not (if its from some other contributor).


So should the caption better "Maintainer" instead "Maintainers"?

kimmov wrote:We must also have this information in one file in version control and in releases (new "Translators.txt" file?).


The Translators.txt would be a translation status file with a other format. So I think it should no problem to create it with my script GetTranslationsStatus.vbs.
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Re: Translators list?

Postby gerundt » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:11 am

Ok, I committed patch #2347236 Add 'Maintainer' support to translations status to SVN. The PO files supported now the "Maintainer" property.

See the German.po for example:

German.po wrote:# This file is part from WinMerge <http://winmerge.org/>
# Released under the "GNU General Public License"
#
# Maintainer:
# * Tim Gerundt <tim at gerundt.de>
#
# Translators:
# * Winfried Peter <winfried.peter at omicron.at>
# * Jörg Schneider <tonda at users.sourceforge.net>
#
# ID line follows -- this is updated by SVN
# $Id: German.po 6130 2008-11-27 00:03:29Z gerundt $
#
...
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Re: Translators list?

Postby kimmov » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:08 pm

gerundt wrote:So should the caption better "Maintainer" instead "Maintainers"?


Yes, I think so. Translations aren't so complicated or big that there really is need for several point persons. If there is maintainer at all, it is one person with known contact info.

gerundt wrote:Ok, I committed patch #2347236 Add 'Maintainer' support to translations status to SVN. The PO files supported now the "Maintainer" property.


Nice!

Sorry I couldn't comment the patch earlier as I was sick for several days.

gerundt wrote:See the German.po for example:


Please can we stop adding this "at" nonsense in e-mail addresses when the e-mail isn't available for spam bots? Text files in our version control clearly are not files spam bots harvest. We can convert that @ to "[at]" or whatever when formatting/creating the page for web.

Notice how I added e-mail addresses in very standard format for Docs/Users/Contributors.txt.
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Re: Translators list?

Postby gerundt » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:55 pm

kimmov wrote:Please can we stop adding this "at" nonsense in e-mail addresses when the e-mail isn't available for spam bots? Text files in our version control clearly are not files spam bots harvest. We can convert that @ to "[at]" or whatever when formatting/creating the page for web.


If you want, we can use correct mail adresses! But for the record: Google indices the PO files! Search for a test for "winmerge german po". ;)
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Re: Translators list?

Postby gerundt » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:06 pm

Ok, I submit a first patch for this translators list:
Patch #2379500 - Create "Translators" file with translations status script

Do you want a special output path for the translators file?
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